After joining together for the prayer vigil at Southside Presbyterian on Friday, August 15, sharing our letter of support, and entering into sacred time and place with the interfaith community that shelters Rosa, you may be wondering...
What's next for our congregation?
Below is the start of our conversation about this topic. At the top is the most recent opinions I've received and at the bottom, kicking it all off, is my opinion. If you want to participate go all the way to the end of this page, fill out and submit the form. (Your emails to me are confidential, so if you send me one with your thoughts on this topic, please give me permission to post it here, otherwise I won't.)
Congregation Conversation
Paul Baird
US citizens in Mexico: I am aware of a US citizen who owns a small restaurant in San Carlos, Mexico. He is not permitted to work in his own establishment--all workers must be Mexican citizens. Some US citizens are permitted to work in Mexico, but must be individually permitted.
Dorothy McKenna
It is my belief that any Central America or Mexican immigrants that makes it across the desert, finds a place to live, gets a job, or in many instances jobs, should not be deported.
The next objection I often hear: Why didn't they study and go for the U.S. Citizen test? If they are working demanding physical jobs, they may not have the energy to go to classes. The test has 100 questions, only six of them will be asked, but the test taker doesn't know which six he or she will be expected to answer. My friend who was tutoring a young Hispanic man called me one evening recently and asked , "Who if the speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives" ?
She has been a U.S. Citizen all her life. There are so many aspects to think about when dealing with sanctuary. Learning more, should be what's next with us.
Paul Taylor
Rosa has been in this country as her home for quite a few years as have many many others that our government can't fit into our justice system. I don't see this as a special case, just one that that is being handled poorly.
Some of the conditions in other countries are much worse than miserable, to include lost of home and life imposed by militant and criminal groups. Sure, the government should be able to protect their people, but what if they can't? Should the parents keep their kids at home to die?
For immigrants already here in the U.S. for many years makes it our problem to solve. This is being done for Rosa by providing sanctuary until resolved. Immigration should be a win/win for for many in the U.S. this likely is the case.)
What about billions of people or the earth warming? So far, our government can't rule on this issue to stop the damage. We are running out of resources, but we have little effort to control population growth or to conserve our resources.
"Good intentions do not necessarily result in good planning." True.
Barb Lemmon
My understanding: When a person receives an order for removal (deportation) they usually have at least 30 days or more to appeal - usually they are given a fixed date on which they must leave. During that limbo time and until that date, they have to right to appeal for a stay of deportation. That would be the time for paperwork to be done. It is not sanctuary which is 'extra-legal' and applies after the fixed date when an appeal has been denied. Assisting folks with this process is not a risk to them prior to the removal date.
Yes, it is greatly desirable to have folks stay in their home and home country - when it is safe to do so, when they are not threatened with death or maiming by remaining in the violent situation. Which has been the case with many of the children who came. The KIVA program which UUCGV supports has that goal - assist folks to make a living at home. We participate in KIVA and any individual may participate on their own and give loans as low as $25 on their own. Just google KIVA and help out.
Working to prevent deportation is not an invitation to immigrate but an action for more thoughtful process of justice for folks already present in our communities.
I was unable to attend the legal clinic but would like to do so.
I agree with the desire to be more visible and a working presence in Amado.
Loretta Carmickle
I think a free legal clinic at UUC would be very doable -- IF there are enough people willing and able to be involved. It would help us become a more and more VISIBLE entity in the Amado community which is seeking to benefit the community by our presence and our activities.
Ann Rangos
I hope this does not come across as negative, it is not my intention.I yearn for us to give support in any way we can.
As I take more time to contemplate...
1. We are 25 miles from border and therefore are told it might be risky to hold a person in sanctuary due to homeland security guidelines. What are the guidelines for people who come to our church to receive support filling out forms for stays of deportation with ICE?
2.Can ICE take them from the church while they are filling out papers or when they leave to get in their cars in our park lot, or if they are driving back to their homes from UUCGV?
Good intentions would be for naught. I would like to know where the risk scale is for our guests coming to us for support.
3. If the risk level is low, how will those seeking stays of deportation be reassured they are safe by coming to our church to fill out forms? I would imagine there is distrust and fear which has forced people to stay in the shadows for fear of being discovered as illegal in the U.S.
4. I want a course in Spanish at the church to learn vocabulary that would be helpful as I sit with people filling out the forms. I want to see those phrases in writing so I can practice at home.
Paul Baird
There will always be special cases in any "justice system". Rosa Robles is apparently one of these.
The much bigger issue is that there may be a billion (wild guess) people who would prefer a better life in the US than to their own miserable conditions.
The really big issue is to help these people feel secure and happy at home. In other words, their problems need to be solved "in situ". Can this be done? --The Marshall Plan seemed to be in that direction and apparently worked.
Immigration "should be" win/win. If it is to be charity then lots of discussion is needed. What about the billion people? What about earth warming? What about the resources needed for more and more people?
Good intentions do not necessarily result in good planning.
Ann Rangos
After attending Sanctuary 101, attending prayer vigils last Tuesday and Friday, my hope is we will find our niche to support the residents of the Amado area in a way that continues to build trust. The listening campaign brought the community together, and I personally, learned so much. Yet, we know, in some ways, we continue to have work to do to build that trust. Keeping Tucson Together project seems eager to support us as we find our way to our next step of Going Forth for immigration. Many of us have voiced our Pain for World around the children who come alone as migrants to this country. I think it is a healthy risk for us to look into Rev. Matthew's suggestions. This is an opportunity to get support from a project that is part of UUC of Tucson's ministry. We do not have to reinvent the wheel. You may ask "Will they come?" There are no guarantees. I am willing to take the risk of time and effort to find out. What if we assisted even just one family in sorting through all the paperwork involved in filing stays of deportation with ICE? It is work of the courageous for us and for those who will come.
US citizens in Mexico: I am aware of a US citizen who owns a small restaurant in San Carlos, Mexico. He is not permitted to work in his own establishment--all workers must be Mexican citizens. Some US citizens are permitted to work in Mexico, but must be individually permitted.
Dorothy McKenna
It is my belief that any Central America or Mexican immigrants that makes it across the desert, finds a place to live, gets a job, or in many instances jobs, should not be deported.
The next objection I often hear: Why didn't they study and go for the U.S. Citizen test? If they are working demanding physical jobs, they may not have the energy to go to classes. The test has 100 questions, only six of them will be asked, but the test taker doesn't know which six he or she will be expected to answer. My friend who was tutoring a young Hispanic man called me one evening recently and asked , "Who if the speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives" ?
She has been a U.S. Citizen all her life. There are so many aspects to think about when dealing with sanctuary. Learning more, should be what's next with us.
Paul Taylor
Rosa has been in this country as her home for quite a few years as have many many others that our government can't fit into our justice system. I don't see this as a special case, just one that that is being handled poorly.
Some of the conditions in other countries are much worse than miserable, to include lost of home and life imposed by militant and criminal groups. Sure, the government should be able to protect their people, but what if they can't? Should the parents keep their kids at home to die?
For immigrants already here in the U.S. for many years makes it our problem to solve. This is being done for Rosa by providing sanctuary until resolved. Immigration should be a win/win for for many in the U.S. this likely is the case.)
What about billions of people or the earth warming? So far, our government can't rule on this issue to stop the damage. We are running out of resources, but we have little effort to control population growth or to conserve our resources.
"Good intentions do not necessarily result in good planning." True.
Barb Lemmon
My understanding: When a person receives an order for removal (deportation) they usually have at least 30 days or more to appeal - usually they are given a fixed date on which they must leave. During that limbo time and until that date, they have to right to appeal for a stay of deportation. That would be the time for paperwork to be done. It is not sanctuary which is 'extra-legal' and applies after the fixed date when an appeal has been denied. Assisting folks with this process is not a risk to them prior to the removal date.
Yes, it is greatly desirable to have folks stay in their home and home country - when it is safe to do so, when they are not threatened with death or maiming by remaining in the violent situation. Which has been the case with many of the children who came. The KIVA program which UUCGV supports has that goal - assist folks to make a living at home. We participate in KIVA and any individual may participate on their own and give loans as low as $25 on their own. Just google KIVA and help out.
Working to prevent deportation is not an invitation to immigrate but an action for more thoughtful process of justice for folks already present in our communities.
I was unable to attend the legal clinic but would like to do so.
I agree with the desire to be more visible and a working presence in Amado.
Loretta Carmickle
I think a free legal clinic at UUC would be very doable -- IF there are enough people willing and able to be involved. It would help us become a more and more VISIBLE entity in the Amado community which is seeking to benefit the community by our presence and our activities.
Ann Rangos
I hope this does not come across as negative, it is not my intention.I yearn for us to give support in any way we can.
As I take more time to contemplate...
1. We are 25 miles from border and therefore are told it might be risky to hold a person in sanctuary due to homeland security guidelines. What are the guidelines for people who come to our church to receive support filling out forms for stays of deportation with ICE?
2.Can ICE take them from the church while they are filling out papers or when they leave to get in their cars in our park lot, or if they are driving back to their homes from UUCGV?
Good intentions would be for naught. I would like to know where the risk scale is for our guests coming to us for support.
3. If the risk level is low, how will those seeking stays of deportation be reassured they are safe by coming to our church to fill out forms? I would imagine there is distrust and fear which has forced people to stay in the shadows for fear of being discovered as illegal in the U.S.
4. I want a course in Spanish at the church to learn vocabulary that would be helpful as I sit with people filling out the forms. I want to see those phrases in writing so I can practice at home.
Paul Baird
There will always be special cases in any "justice system". Rosa Robles is apparently one of these.
The much bigger issue is that there may be a billion (wild guess) people who would prefer a better life in the US than to their own miserable conditions.
The really big issue is to help these people feel secure and happy at home. In other words, their problems need to be solved "in situ". Can this be done? --The Marshall Plan seemed to be in that direction and apparently worked.
Immigration "should be" win/win. If it is to be charity then lots of discussion is needed. What about the billion people? What about earth warming? What about the resources needed for more and more people?
Good intentions do not necessarily result in good planning.
Ann Rangos
After attending Sanctuary 101, attending prayer vigils last Tuesday and Friday, my hope is we will find our niche to support the residents of the Amado area in a way that continues to build trust. The listening campaign brought the community together, and I personally, learned so much. Yet, we know, in some ways, we continue to have work to do to build that trust. Keeping Tucson Together project seems eager to support us as we find our way to our next step of Going Forth for immigration. Many of us have voiced our Pain for World around the children who come alone as migrants to this country. I think it is a healthy risk for us to look into Rev. Matthew's suggestions. This is an opportunity to get support from a project that is part of UUC of Tucson's ministry. We do not have to reinvent the wheel. You may ask "Will they come?" There are no guarantees. I am willing to take the risk of time and effort to find out. What if we assisted even just one family in sorting through all the paperwork involved in filing stays of deportation with ICE? It is work of the courageous for us and for those who will come.
Rev. Matthew Crary
I learned early in my ministry with you is that immigrants coming into the US from Mexico have crossed our property before. This fact has always left me wondering, if an undocumented immigrant did come to us, what might our response be? Offering humanitarian aid (food, water, first aid, etc.) is one option open to us, but are there more? Several months back now, Jaime Brusstar and I sought to find out by asking people who about immigration issue their opinion.
Independently, we discovered the same thing: we are not a good position to offer sanctuary to undocumented immigrants. First, those that have recently crossed the boarder are not good candidates for sanctuary. Prime candidates are individuals who are well established in the community, with families and jobs that pay taxes and have no criminal record, but have stayed after their work visa expired. Second, we are much too close to the 25 mile boundary where the Department of Homeland Security enforces their policies through the Boarder Patrol. Even a prime candidate for sanctuary might be just taken from our protection under the guise of "national security." Finally, we need a clear congregational mandate before we even begin to work with immigrant organizers to find a prime candidate - and we have yet to begin that conversation amongst ourselves.
However, we can continue to support congregations, like Southside Presbyterian, as they seek to shelter families through this immigration crisis.
I learned early in my ministry with you is that immigrants coming into the US from Mexico have crossed our property before. This fact has always left me wondering, if an undocumented immigrant did come to us, what might our response be? Offering humanitarian aid (food, water, first aid, etc.) is one option open to us, but are there more? Several months back now, Jaime Brusstar and I sought to find out by asking people who about immigration issue their opinion.
Independently, we discovered the same thing: we are not a good position to offer sanctuary to undocumented immigrants. First, those that have recently crossed the boarder are not good candidates for sanctuary. Prime candidates are individuals who are well established in the community, with families and jobs that pay taxes and have no criminal record, but have stayed after their work visa expired. Second, we are much too close to the 25 mile boundary where the Department of Homeland Security enforces their policies through the Boarder Patrol. Even a prime candidate for sanctuary might be just taken from our protection under the guise of "national security." Finally, we need a clear congregational mandate before we even begin to work with immigrant organizers to find a prime candidate - and we have yet to begin that conversation amongst ourselves.
However, we can continue to support congregations, like Southside Presbyterian, as they seek to shelter families through this immigration crisis.
Though much about immigration policy is uncertain, what is clear is that the only change to the current inadequate US policies can come from an executive order from President Obama. This seems likely, he has spoken out about the failings of current policy as harmful to families. And, it seems possible this could come before the Labor Day weekend this year. After that Congress reconvenes and they have stated they oppose immigration reform.
However, the President can only do so much, no matter what even the most comprehensive executive order changes, there will be immigrant parents who will still be required to return to their country of origin. It will have to be deeply explored and debated by the immigrant community organizing here in Arizona if individuals who are not prime candidates, who may be unemployed, have some minor criminal infractions, or have other issues outside of the reform an executive order can make, may also be considered for sanctuary.
Until some changes is made, communities of faith offering sanctuary to prime candidates for stays of deportation, like Rosa and Daniel Noyo Ruiz before her, is a compassionate, moral and value-based option.
However, the President can only do so much, no matter what even the most comprehensive executive order changes, there will be immigrant parents who will still be required to return to their country of origin. It will have to be deeply explored and debated by the immigrant community organizing here in Arizona if individuals who are not prime candidates, who may be unemployed, have some minor criminal infractions, or have other issues outside of the reform an executive order can make, may also be considered for sanctuary.
Until some changes is made, communities of faith offering sanctuary to prime candidates for stays of deportation, like Rosa and Daniel Noyo Ruiz before her, is a compassionate, moral and value-based option.
Both Rosa and Daniel, who received sanctuary at Southside Presbyterian began their journeys with the "Keeping Tucson Together" project. Keeping Tucson Together (KTT) is a project of No More Deaths, a ministry of the UU Church of Tucson (UUCT). No More Deaths was the 2012 recipient of the Wilton Peace Prize awarded by the UUA in recognition of their contribution to "peace and human progress" here in Southern Arizona. (http://standingonthesideoflove.org/tag/keep-tucson-together/)
The Rev. Diane Dowgiert, minister of the UU Church of Tucson, writes that the Keeping Tucson Together project, "has been more successful than any other organization in helping local undocumented immigrant families stay together, by fighting to close the cases of inappropriate deportation orders sent to immigrant parents without any criminal record, whose children and spouses living with them in the U.S. Are defendant upon them financially and emotionally."
(http://standingonthesideoflove.org/tag/keep-tucson-together/)
The free legal clinic by Keeping Tucson Together I attended was vibrant with over 50 people of all ages and backgrounds. Some were volunteers (trained how to help regardless of Spanish language ability) but most were families seeking to stay together by filing stays of deportation with Immigration Enforcement. It was a bit chaotic, which made me think, we could organize this better at our church, and that made me wonder, "What would a Keeping Amado Together project look like?"
I imagine we could serve our local community well, by getting training, partnering with other bi-lingual volunteers, and then opening a free legal clinic in our Social Hall. We could show Disney movies in Spanish in our sanctuary for all the children who might be otherwise bored to tears waiting for their parents.
The Rev. Diane Dowgiert, minister of the UU Church of Tucson, writes that the Keeping Tucson Together project, "has been more successful than any other organization in helping local undocumented immigrant families stay together, by fighting to close the cases of inappropriate deportation orders sent to immigrant parents without any criminal record, whose children and spouses living with them in the U.S. Are defendant upon them financially and emotionally."
(http://standingonthesideoflove.org/tag/keep-tucson-together/)
The free legal clinic by Keeping Tucson Together I attended was vibrant with over 50 people of all ages and backgrounds. Some were volunteers (trained how to help regardless of Spanish language ability) but most were families seeking to stay together by filing stays of deportation with Immigration Enforcement. It was a bit chaotic, which made me think, we could organize this better at our church, and that made me wonder, "What would a Keeping Amado Together project look like?"
I imagine we could serve our local community well, by getting training, partnering with other bi-lingual volunteers, and then opening a free legal clinic in our Social Hall. We could show Disney movies in Spanish in our sanctuary for all the children who might be otherwise bored to tears waiting for their parents.